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Can peace and violence coexist?

Submitted by MountainLaurel, Jul 18, 2010 18:38

In his response to John K., "anonymous" pointed out that since its founding, Islam has promoted violence and glorified death. He also pointed out that Islam was founded (in the 7-8th centuries) long before the crusades and western culture. While we continue to hear that it's western aggression that has brought terrorism down on our heads, I think it's clear that Islam simply looks for convenient scapegoats to be reasons for its terrorism, and even if it didn't have a reason, would continue to employ violent jihad, in its quest for dominance. It's in the koran, and all of ICNA'S books continue the theme. To think that Islam will change it's spots is dangerous nonsense. All these groups with ties to the Muslim Brotherhood and other terror groups should be declared subversive or worse, and closed down. Those Muslims who protest must be deported. Islam brings jihad (violence), intolerance and hatred. It is simply incompatible with what America stands for.

 

Silly silly!!!

Submitted by Kaplan, Dec 16, 2009 20:39

ICNA has largely Pakistani membership. Pakistan and India have been at odd since their independent in 1947. It is on going conflict. The video shown here is just a reflection of that conflict. So what if they use the word Jihad! Different country use different slogon to galvinize. US uses democracy, national security among others to advance its causes. Further, Americans of various ethnicities often return to their country of national origin in times of difficulties or serve. Examples, American Jews routinely serve in Israeli army!

I understand the concern of Americans or US residents fighting against US forces. I think that should be a redline that should not go unpunished, but if a Pakistani American fights with Pakistan against India, let them.

 

No extremism?

Submitted by PRCS, Dec 16, 2009 16:29

ICNA issued a declaration saying, "Extremism has no place in Islam, and ICNA works tirelessly to oppose extremist and violent ideology."

Those assertions are bald-faced lies, and the Muslims who make them have correctly concluded that we--we western nations--remain too ignorant of Islam's true teachings to authoritatively challenge that nonsense.

Muslims believe the Qur'an is God's literal and unchangeable word. As translated by Yusafali, chapter 5 verse 38 states: As to the thief, Male or female, cut off his or her hands: a punishment by way of example, from Allah, for their crime: and Allah is Exalted in power.

That most of the world's Muslims will never amputate a thief's hands does not negate what the Qur'an says. Nor is it appropriate to assign the 'extremist' label to those Muslims who conduct them today; in Somalia for example. For, while such behavior exceeds the norms of the world's moderate Muslims, it neither exceeds nor violates Islam's teachings; it complies with them.

To believe ICNA's notion that extremism has no place in Islam is to believe that Islam gives Muslims the freedom to choose which Islamic teachings they wish to follow and to ignore those they don't. Even more nonsensical is their assertion that they work tirelessly against 'violent ideology'.

Like the amputation of thieves' hands?

 

How relevant is our own innocence?

Dec 16, 2009 16:20

Dear John K.,

If you believe that because of our own lack of collective innocence, we should be allowing domestic groups to encourage acts of violence against us and others, I think you are misguided. I too found that the lack of recent evidence in this article was a bit telling. However, these fve youths were not born after July 2001, thus they were most likely influenced by things they were taught during their impressionable youths 8 years ago. Furthermore, they are probably not the only youths in this position.

I don't believe the point of this article was to say that we Americans are blameless, but rather to try to get Muslims and non-Muslim Americans to wake up a bit and recognize that this message is being taught to Muslims right here in our country and it has serious repurcussions.

Islam does not hide the fact that it is a universalist religion and its goal is that all humans accept its message. Furthermore, the history of Islamic violence and conquest is not relegated to the post-September 11th world, this century, or even this millenia. If you want to blame American policy for Islamic violence and terrorism, then I think you sorely miss the bigger picture. Islamic violent conquest has a history that goes back to the founding period of Islam. It predates American foreign policy, Western colonialism & imperialism and the crusades. I am not saying that Islam is the problem, rather the problem is the message of hatred and violence, of jihad, crusade, holy war, etc. whatever the ideology that spews it: The religion of death and the worship and glorification of death as opposed to life and tolerance. We must be aware that this message is spreading and its source is domestic as well as abroad and it has to be stopped. We should take a long, hard look at our policies, as we always should, but not in the hopes of appeasing those who wish to kill or covert us so long as we value our freedom and independence. And we should take a long, hard look at those within our own country who use the freedoms that it provides to try to destroy it and replace it with the intolerant religious regimes of the past. I think the goal of this article was to get the ICNA to wake up, look at its past messages and accept its own partial responsibility for this situation, and then hopefully work to correct the situation in the present for the sake of the future.

 

Are we that innocent?

Submitted by John K, Dec 16, 2009 11:22

With all due respect to the writer who has obviously worked diligently to search the past references about this organization but has failed to produce anything after July 2001, It seems that either he lives in the past or is radically biased against anyone other than his own religious group. Lets not forget that our CIA toppled a 100% democratic government of Iran for oil back in the 50s which gave rise to extreme anti-american sentiment in Iran. Lets not forget that due to our sponsored sanctions after the first gulf war in Iraq, more than 5.5 million innocent children and women died because of not having access to food and medicine according to the UN statistics. Lets also not forget the hundreds of thousands of innocent children, women and men who have died in Afghanistan as a direct result of our invasion there so we could install Hamid Karzai, an ex-employee of UNOCAL, who within his first year helped build the oil pipeline via another American company Haliburton, under the guise of hunting for bin laden who by the way is still nowhere to be found. My question is, are we really that innocent? That when we point fingers at others for disliking americans, in a way we are implying that we are perfectly innocent and have never harmed them or their interests. I agree that extremism is bad for everyone but the only way its going to be eliminated is thru true justice, openness, admitting our own faults, and discontinuing hostile policies and actions against other sovereign nations. Thank you.

 

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