"anti-Muslim hate"
Reader comment on item: Guest Column - Radical Islam Exists: Islamism IS the New Totalitarianism
in response to reader comment: Islam, Islamism, and the difference

Submitted by Jack Diamond, Feb 18, 2015 15:01

Re: Mr. Verdine's reply. First, I don't give my own opinions, my opinions about what Islam is or isn't are of little importance. What matters is what a huge number of Muslims believe and why they believe it. What matters is they base those beliefs on the Qur'an and the model of conduct Muhammad, what he said and did. As long are there are Muslims who take that seriously we are going to be faced with jihad terror and shari'a fascism. Second, any "anti-Muslim hate" arising is a perfectly reasonable response to being the target of threats, mass murders, and rabid incitement from Muslims. And attempts to bring to us Islamic law. Self-preservation and self-defense is a different motivation than bigotry and hate. There was no "anti-Muslim hate" before the bloodbaths. Third, your attempt to protect the reputation of Islam by eliminating everything you find embarrassing and contradictory to your own position might make for an interesting debate but hardly applies to most of the Muslim world. Sunni Muslims venerate the Sunnah, the example of Muhammad in the sira and authenticated hadiths. They also venerate the scholars you don't want me mentioning (because they clearly contradict you). You have all these fallback positions where it all went wrong in Islam, it's Wahhabism or the Muslim Brotherhood (as if they invented all this); it's the jurists of the 8th and 9th century (and the schools of shari'a too?); it's the hadiths with all those shocking and deplorable stories of Muhammad, toss them out as well so they can't be invoked against Islam. Even though without the Sunnah there is no "context" for the Qur'an, no chronology, no pillars. However, the Western World has to deal with Islam as it is not as you would have it be. How well are your positions going over in Riyadh, or Ramallah, or Karachi, or in Europe or in most of the mosques in America? Because that is the reality. You don't need to be debating non-Muslims and calling them anti-Muslim haters. You need to be convincing young and devout Muslim men that everything they are learning about the Qur'an and Muhammad, about Jihad and Shari'a, is wrong. However...

Your comments on the respect Islam shows for Jews and Christians and that salvation is promised them leaves a lot out. Islam says there are good Jews and Christians, yes, those who become Muslims! The others (I'm talking about Jews & Christians after Muhammad whose religions are NOT recognized by Allah...those before Muhammad are different) have a different fate than Paradise. "those who disbelieved among the People of the Scriptures (Jews & Christians) will be in the Fire of Hell, abiding eternally therein. They are the worst of creatures." (98:1) That disbelieved in the prophet of Islam. "you will surely find the most violent of the people in enmity (animosity) towards the believers to be the Jews and those who associate others with Allah (who commit shirk)" (5:82) meaning Christians "and the Jews say Uzair is the son of Allah and the Christians say the Messiah is the son of Allah. These are the words of their mouths..may Allah destroy them, how they are turned away!" (9:30-31). Believers are Muslims. Ibn Kathir, who I am not supposed to quote, gives the orthodox position on 2:62 "when Allah sent Muhammad as the last and final prophet and messenger to all the children of Adam, mankind was required to believe in him, obey him, and refrain from what he prohibited them...before that every person who followed the guidance of his own prophet was on the correct path." Based on the Islamic idea that all the previous Jewish & Christian prophets were really Muslims and their scriptures were "changed" and corrupted from the original (to explain why they diverge from Islam).

The Qur'an is clear that Christians after Muhammad blasphemy who proclaim the divinity of Christ or the Trinity. "they do blasphemy who say God is Christ, the son of Mary. They do blasphemy who say God is one of three in a Trinity...verily a previous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them...Christ, the son of Mary, was no more than a messenger. (5:17; 5:72-73, 75). "surely they are in disbelief who say Allah is the Messiah, the son of Maryam" which is why Christians are commonly referred to as kaffirs by Muslims and treated accordingly. We won't even get into the bile expended on the Jews in the Qur'an and why hatred against them is thus condoned.

The command (revelation) in verse 9:29 was certainly understood differently than Mr. Werdine by the Companions of Muhammad who used it as a basis for jihad wars and the institution of dhimmitude for the conquered and subjugated people (mostly Christians). Once again, it is not phrased in terms of self-defense--fight (and kill) those who disbelieve in Islam unless they convert or accept their subjugation under the authority of Islam. Including specifically the Jews & Christians, whose religions Islam has appropriated and abrogated. Shirk and kufr refer to beliefs that Islam considers crimes. In fact, losing one's belief is such a crime for a Muslim, shari'a recommends the death penalty for apostasy. The disorder, fitna, caused by disbelief is such a horror to Islam it is called worse than killing, worse than a slaughter (2:191). So, Qur'an 9:5 and 9:29 have to do with fighting people because of their beliefs. Not if they physically attack you. It is about beliefs. And so...

The Holy War that ended the Jewish life in Arabia then set out conquer and subjugate the largely Christian Middle East and North Africa, peoples who had done no harm to Muslims (self-defense!) other than exist and refuse the "kind" offer to Islam. But unbelievers in the mission of Muhammad are enemies: "fight them until there is no more fitna (so there is no more trial in religion)" 8:39 ibn Kathir "it is the order to eradicate shirk and kufr." 3:19 states "the religion with Allah is Islam". Tafsir Ibn Kathir comments: "Allah states that there is no religion accepted with Him from any person, except Islam...after Allah sent Muhammad whoever meets Allah following a path other than Muhammad's it will not be accepted of him (3:85)." Ibn Kathir is quoted because he represents the consensus of the ulema on this subject. But we should listen to you instead...because? Because there is great conflict on this interpretation? Where?

In keeping with the demand of 9:29 for Jews & Christians to follow Islam (the religion of truth), or fight and die, or submit to Islam as what became called (lowly) dhimmis...so, Abu Bakr invading Persia said "embrace Islam, pay the poll tax (jizya) or fight" and Caliph Umar invading Iraq said "summon the people to God, those who refuse must pay the poll-tax out of humiliation and lowliness. If they refuse this it is the sword without leniency." This was war based upon what people believe, not on self-defense. And...compulsion in religion, a little? In fact, Islam is nothing but compulsion... saying it doesn't "force" you to convert doesn't change that fact, it is compulsion (Islam means submission), and endless word-games so the stupid kaffirs don't know that what Islam means by "oppression" "self-defense" "compulsion in religion" "waging war against Allah" "causing mischief" "slander" "aggression" "innocent people" "peace" etc, that they are worlds apart from what infidels mean.

What would you have us do, Mr. Werdine? Pretend none of this comes from core Islamic teachings, stop repeating the deeds of Muhammad and his followers reported by the faithful because they hurt your feelings and you've decided they can't be true? Unfortunately, Muslims emulate them. Including ISIS. What I or any infidels say about Islam or what is or isn't Jihad has nothing to do with how Muslims understand and act upon these things. Not what I say and not what Obama or Kerry say. You are more responsible for your co-religionists than I am. My concern is solely containing and limiting the menace from Islam to civilization, a menace that clearly comes from Islamic doctrines themselves and which remain the chief "recruiting tool" for the jihad.

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